tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post231837059042499350..comments2023-10-17T05:01:42.650-04:00Comments on Abandoning Eden: The death of an OTDerAbandoning Edenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-68448150032760239712013-10-05T01:57:36.763-04:002013-10-05T01:57:36.763-04:00I am a non-jewish man, who has never been religiou...I am a non-jewish man, who has never been religious at all. I am grateful that my parents never burdened me with that. My Brother commited suicide, but religion did not play a role - he was just broken and in spite of many efforts there was no fix. <br /><br />I have followed you blog for a while and I find it really engrossing. The issues that surround religion/atheism are universal, and I really appreciate your sharing your experiences.bt-commenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14550412495360160035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-24331077976017810842013-10-03T18:04:14.787-04:002013-10-03T18:04:14.787-04:00Marisa I'm sorry to hear that this has happene...Marisa I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you too. Hang in there, I believe that if you don't lose faith they will come back to you, even if it takes time. rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-18679488433320573932013-10-03T18:01:20.365-04:002013-10-03T18:01:20.365-04:00Incidentally I've never posted on this kind of...Incidentally I've never posted on this kind of thing before, for the same reason, but for some reason Deb's death has affected me deeply and I feel I should do something or say something. I had no idea that there were so many of us.rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-9199264150499251752013-10-03T18:00:02.617-04:002013-10-03T18:00:02.617-04:00Hana that's a great idea. Also, a lot of lawy...Hana that's a great idea. Also, a lot of lawyers and judges are men! Which means they aren't generally (sorry to be sexist but practically I know I'm right - I work with lawyers and judges and they barely see their own kids) experienced in raising kids and don't understand a lot of the issues. And they seem to think that it's better for kids to stay the way they are, in the schools they are in, because the leaving parent has caused enough instability just by leaving. I can see where that view is coming from and it makes sense, in a way. But they have no idea what goes on in the schools they are in, and forcing a parent who doesn't believe in something to educate her kids in a way that she doesn't believe in is not a great recipe for stability either! rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-39291236776024968512013-10-02T21:33:35.424-04:002013-10-02T21:33:35.424-04:00I'm sorry you went through this. New square......I'm sorry you went through this. New square...now what a scary place. I delivered kosher chinese food there around 13 years ago. <br /><br />Being an OTDer is a form of dissent (not following community rules) as is questioning their leader. Places like that do not tolerate dissent. Many orthodox communities don't tolerate dissent to some degree or another, it's just a matter of where exactly the line is and the degree to which they react to it that differs. Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-54872603297169293922013-10-02T16:48:33.327-04:002013-10-02T16:48:33.327-04:00sorry thanks for giving me the link but i cant acc...sorry thanks for giving me the link but i cant access facebookstill jewishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05396743856145914222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-28269882058202986082013-10-01T23:33:22.972-04:002013-10-01T23:33:22.972-04:00I've so far been too shy to post anything on a...I've so far been too shy to post anything on an OTD blog but if any of this actually happens I'd like to help, too.<br />After I went OTD I became a paralegal and found out that the legal world is clueless about Orthodoxy (or I'd guess any really religious society). Family law is confusing enough now that I've been to school to learn it...I could not imagine having to deal with it right after leaving...it would be great if there was a way to put together some sort of educational thing for lawyers and judges.<br />Also, I wish there was a better way to connect OTD people with whatever legal help and mental health help already exists. I know in NY there's a place called Unchained at Last that's supposed to help women get out of bad arranged marriages, and that there are legal aid clinics who work with abused women and low-income people, but it can be hard to find (and harder to call a random group for help). Maybe someone could put together a resource list and post it online/give to whoever is answering the phoneline?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01079496507856110349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-83179440043198858882013-10-01T20:29:32.462-04:002013-10-01T20:29:32.462-04:00The truth needs to be told - I think most posters ...The truth needs to be told - I think most posters here might be missing an important point:<br /><br />This isn't a story about treatment of "OTD" members of the community.<br /><br />New Square / Skver acts this way to ANYONE that...<br /><br />1) Once belonged to the community, and ... <br /><br />2) Dares to publicly express doubts about their false version of Orthodox Judaism.<br /><br />It his nothing to do with going OTD. Really.<br /><br />They did the same parental alienation thing to me - a STILL 100% ULTRA-ORTHODOX JEW.<br /><br />I was punished for getting disgusted by the ongoing moral lapses, financial shenanigans and deceptions that constantly go on in the upper echelons there. I knew what was going on, since at the time I was affiliated with several of their organizations and - at one time - a confident of the Rebbe.<br /><br />I knew that the Rebbe was (and IS) a fake, because he supported - and continues to support - frightening ethical & moral lapses, INCLUDING SERIOUS HALACHIC AND HASHKAFIC LAPSES.<br /><br />When I refused to stay silent, a campaign of demoralization, deception, dehumanization, and "gaslighting" followed. <br /><br />They're experts at "blowing off" any concerns that don't fit their agenda, and making you feel like trash. Tearing families apart? Fair game. <br /><br />There is nothing sacred in their book, once you dare to expose their failings. They will do EVERYTHING to demolish you, including spreading false rumors of the worst kind.<br /><br />Ms. Tambor writes:<br />My very own father,<br />Not only has he betrayed me<br />He made up lies<br /><br />They betrayed me, too - BECAUSE I REFUSED TO STAY SILENT!<br /><br />Many INSIDERS feel as I do, but they would never dear to speak up, because they know that their whole social support network and life-long affiliations would be DEMOLISHED.<br /><br />So... let's call a spade a spade, ok?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03826932784204196608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-80580799326024694912013-10-01T16:38:33.175-04:002013-10-01T16:38:33.175-04:00Hi still jewish
feel free to check out Miri Omed o...Hi still jewish<br />feel free to check out Miri Omed on facebook for support through direct messages<br />https://www.facebook.com/miri.omed.9OMEDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05195416847907736416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-44809806746033152652013-10-01T10:39:26.366-04:002013-10-01T10:39:26.366-04:00Anyway, sometimes karma is a bitch. The 'rabb...Anyway, sometimes karma is a bitch. The 'rabbi' my ex's family relied on for their power struggle (and unfortunately succeeded in relying on) is now under police charges for sex offences against women.rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-68485080037287389062013-10-01T10:24:50.835-04:002013-10-01T10:24:50.835-04:00Just today I ran into someone from my former life,...Just today I ran into someone from my former life, and as always I'm dan lekaf zechut to think they might be able to hold a normal conversation after all these years, but I can literally set my watch to the two minutes in to the conversation where they ask, '.. so, where are you living these days? {as if I live on the moon! I've been in the same place for 12 years!} ..do you ever see the kids? { like wtf! how dare you even ask me such a dumb question! do you ever see YOUR kids? } no, really. EVERY TIME. It's just too depressing.rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-27916686968830249242013-10-01T05:32:14.914-04:002013-10-01T05:32:14.914-04:00A phoneline would be a good start, and maybe some ...A phoneline would be a good start, and maybe some kind of group to raise awareness in the judiciary of what OTD parents (especially mums) are up against. Incidentally I don't really like the term OTD. We're all on a path, there isn't just one derech surely! <br />rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-2053181468367499612013-09-29T21:29:30.474-04:002013-09-29T21:29:30.474-04:00yes i do agree and wish there would be such a phon...yes i do agree and wish there would be such a phone line yea i really want such thing it would be great support <br />please let me know if it does happen such thing still jewishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05396743856145914222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-4257463708951708252013-09-29T17:48:37.140-04:002013-09-29T17:48:37.140-04:00Two of my children treat me with disdain and yes, ...Two of my children treat me with disdain and yes, that special place in HELL will be occupied by my ex-husband and his wife and Rabbis someday as well. The difficulty of divorce and the court system is enough to depress anybody but the grief caused by children who act as if they hate you because they have been programmed to feel that way is more than many Jewish mothers can bear.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04231051758510975897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-27697709382616562032013-09-29T11:33:24.723-04:002013-09-29T11:33:24.723-04:00Thank you for posting this--we are observant but s...Thank you for posting this--we are observant but some of our children chose not to be. Those are legitimate choices and no one else's business, and I am appalled that a frum community would turn against a man or woman for not adhering to the minhagim of the community -- please, it's not like they converted to another religion!! (and even if they did, however sad, it should not make them less than your children). I agree that a hotline or some form of public outcry needs to take place---this kind of isolation, marginalization and depression can only happen where silence suppresses the truth.aliyah06https://www.blogger.com/profile/12570980519532246704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-37573131550320197562013-09-29T11:06:50.225-04:002013-09-29T11:06:50.225-04:00Thanks for bringing this terrible situation to lig...Thanks for bringing this terrible situation to light. It's truly heartbreaking. I wish I had the answer as to what can be done to prevent this in the future. I do know that this type of harassment has to be denounced from within the community for there to be a change. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-9416898612698614352013-09-29T08:44:34.452-04:002013-09-29T08:44:34.452-04:00rebel you are definitely not alone, I can think of...rebel you are definitely not alone, I can think of at least 5 OTDers off the top of my head who have lost custody over their kids for similar reasons...the community rallies behind the religious spouse, people lie in court to do anything to keep the kids religious, I even know a woman whose kids were kidnapped after she gained custody and sent to live in a jewish community. Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-15330160552199185422013-09-28T23:39:32.641-04:002013-09-28T23:39:32.641-04:00Re the above, if I can help in any way I would lik...Re the above, if I can help in any way I would like to try. Have been through similar, at the time thought I was the only one going through this (maybe I was, it was over 10 years ago. rebel29https://www.blogger.com/profile/02349218332930115687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-80265887891605859252013-09-28T22:28:46.698-04:002013-09-28T22:28:46.698-04:00Number one, we need to become more public, vocal, ...Number one, we need to become more public, vocal, not keep these stories to just those in our community. Number two, an official organization that has thousands of members and a board and regular meetings would have more strength than our individual messages, though they are very important. We need both a public clearinghouse to publish this information as a bloc to raise awareness and support, and a donation/charitable wing to provide real financial and legal support to change the status quo of custody decisions.<br /> Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07884917375040396639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-62142737281817699172013-09-28T21:56:19.824-04:002013-09-28T21:56:19.824-04:00I am so sorry to hear this news. I did not know of...I am so sorry to hear this news. I did not know of this young woman, but as a member of the Orthodox Community, I am appalled that people who choose to observe or not observe differently from me should have to experience the kind of negativity and persecution I have heard about all too many times. Religion or the lack of it is a deeply personal choice, and does not trump our ability to love and support our fellow human beings in their lives. In fact, that would be the first directive of a religious life, in my humble opinion. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293688875148077036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-5392571371005880722013-09-28T19:47:38.405-04:002013-09-28T19:47:38.405-04:00yasher koach. :)yasher koach. :)s(b.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08633383652906692253noreply@blogger.com