tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post548860944573809425..comments2023-10-17T05:01:42.650-04:00Comments on Abandoning Eden: On lyingAbandoning Edenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-81692783243962223222010-12-26T02:23:46.902-05:002010-12-26T02:23:46.902-05:00I like your blog. When I was 17 my mom hung up the...I like your blog. When I was 17 my mom hung up the phone on my first girlfriend when I was home from sleepaway yeshiva. I didn't come home for 6 months after that. The ridiculous rules they made (tried to make) me keep made my into a rebellious person even as an adult. I only went 'atheist' 3 years ago but growing up in a fum world has unf scarred my life in a way I don't think will ever be healed. oh well. I hope my kids never believe in any gods...Noamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916800934524337089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-460301939787297312009-12-01T10:15:22.609-05:002009-12-01T10:15:22.609-05:00Excellent post. Interestingly enough-I can relate...Excellent post. Interestingly enough-I can relate alot of my teenage experiences with yours.Duddes02https://www.blogger.com/profile/11217979236583458667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-76561726932662244462009-11-19T04:09:31.662-05:002009-11-19T04:09:31.662-05:00Believe it or not, I used to lie to my parents a l...Believe it or not, I used to lie to my parents a lot when I was younger, because my parents were so old-fashioned and overprotective. I never really felt guilty about it, to be honest, because I didn't think what I was doing was wrong. I remember at my bridal shower, after talking to a bunch of my girlfriends, my mother turned to me and said, "you went skydiving?" LOL. I don't think my Dad ever knew that my college dorm was co-ed.<br /><br />Send your grandfather a card if you feel like you can't talk to him without spilling your guts about your life. Your calling him isn't about you, it's about making him feel better. If hearing about your life will make him feel worse, you haven't accomplished anything. If lying about your life will make you feel at odds with yourself, send him a card. Frankly, I don't think there is anything really wrong with calling, keeping the convo on him or on neutral things, and steering off topics that are dangerous.<br /><br />-WGWebGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03136375487829231176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-81960251000892131192009-11-18T15:51:15.816-05:002009-11-18T15:51:15.816-05:00Call your grandfather. Don't let this hold you...Call your grandfather. Don't let this hold you back.<br /><br />I've struggled with a lot of the same issues. I am still struggling with a lot of them... I'm sorry your parents were so harsh. It's no help to know that they meant well, when they treated you so badly, but keep it in mind if it helps you forgive them somehow.<br /><br />My parents still have no idea that I almost married someone non-Jewish... even though I was prepared to still somehow try to keep Shabbat and kashrut (not for them, for myself). I'm 32 and was just forced to move back with them temporarily for financial reasons... hope to be out of here soon. I just try my best to keep them out of the parts of my life that would distress them, without actually lying too much. I'll never be "the good daughter" in their eyes but I can't hurt them by letting them really know what's going on with me. However, I do consider it rather brave that since moving back I've been more open about things like wearing jeans with a little skirt on top, and I also consider it a mellowing on their part that they haven't, as yet, flipped out on me about that... we've got to meet each other in the middle somehow, try to tolerate each other. Because as much as we can't understand each other, we do love each other... at least... that's what I think on my better days...<br /><br />For various reasons, I cannot call my beloved grandfather (not religious issues) even though he is still alive. I can't tell you what I'd give to be able to call him.<br /><br />Don't lose this chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-39921933076406425832009-11-18T15:00:58.431-05:002009-11-18T15:00:58.431-05:00Oh, AE, I'm sorry. It's so hard sometimes....Oh, AE, I'm sorry. It's so hard sometimes. Sending you a big fat hug.Aunt Beckyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12146687582842259611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-91273025960771123012009-11-18T09:47:48.597-05:002009-11-18T09:47:48.597-05:00Please call your grandfather. It's the right ...Please call your grandfather. It's the right thing to do. This is not all about you or your feelings. When someone is older and is ill, especially if its someone who loves you, then try to put his interests and perspective ahead of yours.<br /> <br /> Besides, the chances that you will regret having made the call are much less than the chances that you will regret not having made the call if you don't do it.Norahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369812782191906571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-20846802992980208172009-11-17T15:37:46.884-05:002009-11-17T15:37:46.884-05:00I find your posting a little disturbing.
The way ...I find your posting a little disturbing.<br /><br />The way it reads is that what affects you most is getting caught out. Lying itself doesn't seem to bother you as much. Indeed, I find this comment <i>"before I figured out how to lie effectively"</i> to be very revealing. Notwithstanding <i>"I am very very honest at this point in my life"</i>, the rest of the posting shows a degree of ambivalence towards the importance of veracity.<br /><br />Your parents' reaction may have been extreme, but it did follow a blatant abuse of trust.<br /><br />I wish your grandfather well, and hope you find a way to talk with him.Neither Left Nor Righthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14784946382732327026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-19742980535063511862009-11-17T12:01:05.532-05:002009-11-17T12:01:05.532-05:00There are some old and wise people who are the mos...There are some old and wise people who are the most accepting people ever. People who have seen the world and have watched as people come and go. <br /><br />Your Zeideh might be more understanding than the rest of your family.Penhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895596986880085446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-22686315590947247082009-11-17T10:24:02.599-05:002009-11-17T10:24:02.599-05:00"OTD" is 'off the derech" derec..."OTD" is 'off the derech" derech meaning 'way' or 'path'; it's what orthodox jews calls people who grew up orthodox and are no longer religiousAbandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-52529512027102325372009-11-17T09:27:32.927-05:002009-11-17T09:27:32.927-05:00It's emarrassing but I had to look up OTD and ...It's emarrassing but I had to look up OTD and while I didn't get my answer, I did get 41 acronym definitions including:<br />Out the door, on the dot, on the double, orally transmitted diseases and older than dirt.<br />Good times.<br /><br />http://www.theladyslounge.comThe Lady's Loungehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08639472170178562879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-53371873190447620722009-11-17T00:14:49.938-05:002009-11-17T00:14:49.938-05:00Are you sure he doesn't know already? Maybe yo...Are you sure he doesn't know already? Maybe your parents have already told him or he found out by another avenue.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-64650356625433778812009-11-17T00:00:45.240-05:002009-11-17T00:00:45.240-05:00What Vashty said; if you're not up to a call, ...What Vashty said; if you're not up to a call, send a card. <3s(b.)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08633383652906692253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-55182187749950788422009-11-16T23:47:39.470-05:002009-11-16T23:47:39.470-05:00For what it's worth, I think you should call y...For what it's worth, I think you should call your grandfather. Certainly the conversation to gravitate to the more sensitive issues. However, you can make the proper effort to make contact, express concern and offer assistance. Most likely, he might not have the energy for an extended conversation. But, he'll know and appreciate that you called. After you have made the contact, if he chooses to make issues about religion or other issues, that is when you can step away. Don't try to negotiate with yourself before you even make the call.<br /><br />Take care and be well.Jim Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04033169863755198209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-16143276962753104412009-11-16T22:41:44.315-05:002009-11-16T22:41:44.315-05:00the post was Intense! very very intense. I think y...the post was Intense! very very intense. I think you should call your grandfather..you will kick yourself if you don't..believe me. The conversation will be what it will be..the important thing is you are doing the right thing by calling him..trust me on that..no matter what the outcome.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06565405092280653958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-23170069635315564442009-11-16T18:31:11.076-05:002009-11-16T18:31:11.076-05:00Wow, this is one of your best posts. Ever!Wow, this is one of your best posts. Ever!Undercover Koferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00194328471722983693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-56578383041145353812009-11-16T17:44:40.428-05:002009-11-16T17:44:40.428-05:00I don't think he would necessarily be more chi...I don't think he would necessarily be more chill...this grandfather, every time I've seen him for the past 10 years he's asked me "so when are you going to marry a nice jewish boy?" and he's even more religious than my parents (my parents are MO, but he is definitely more yeshivish). <br /><br />But you're right, I should call. Maybe tomorrow...Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-65323603989989929212009-11-16T17:29:05.964-05:002009-11-16T17:29:05.964-05:00I'm writing this with the assumption that you ...I'm writing this with the assumption that you want encouragement to call him.<br /><br />Is your grandmother still on decent speaking terms with you? If so, call him! Or if he's close by, visit! You'd regret your silence much more than telling him you are not frum. And if he knows already, you don't have to explain much. You can ask him how he is doing, tell him you miss him, tell him about your career. Grandparents are usually more chill about frumkeit in some ways because things really have changed that much from generation to generation. And finally, you can be the non-frum daughter who didn't call her grandfather before surgery (thus apparently having rejected him along with yiddishkeit), or the sweet non-frum granddaughter who still makes an effort.<br /><br />If you CANNOT call in the end, I think it's best to get flowers delivered and, if you can, a long note/short letter. I should tell you that a family member of mine who had open-heart surgery was not quite herself afterwards, and the recovery was so painful that she needed lots of phone conversations even though they exhausted her and had to be very short.<br /><br />The story you tell in your post is familiar but so sad. I am sorry you had to go through that, and I wish your grandpa a refuah shelemah. And keep up the great blog.Vashtyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12702322598899231692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-37368947857552422632009-11-16T17:25:06.161-05:002009-11-16T17:25:06.161-05:00This could be published anywhere. It is very power...This could be published anywhere. It is very powerful and true and shows the difficulty of breaking free with any cultural bonds which your family holds closely. The same story could be written by a person who was gay, I think. But this is YOUR story and I will be thinking about it for a long time. <br />And if you want to know what I think- I think you should call your grandfather. Otherwise, you will give proof to what happens to people when they leave the religion. In his eyes, anyway. <br />I send you my best thoughts and I think you should get this published.Ms. Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09776404747858099919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-31125832934933108212009-11-16T15:41:56.230-05:002009-11-16T15:41:56.230-05:00I don't have to tell him about religion, but i...I don't have to tell him about religion, but if I call even to see how he is doing, I can't imagine the fact that I'm now married (to someone not jewish) would NOT come up. Plus I would also have to talk to my grandmother, since she guards the phone and all. <br /><br />Maybe I can send him a card or something instead?Abandoning Edenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696116071749613265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8552682727548828725.post-55171481136670047502009-11-16T15:31:10.394-05:002009-11-16T15:31:10.394-05:00Why do you have to tell your grandpa about your re...Why do you have to tell your grandpa about your religion? Just ask him how he is doing? <br /><br />I had a heart surgery last year - the last thing on my mind was whether anyone is religious or not - just wanted to live at that point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com