The more I think about it, the more this seems like a horrifically bad decision on Mccain's part. For someone who is 72 and whose skin cancer has reoccurred 4 times, this shows a remarkable lack of judgment. This move is so clearly pandering to disappointed Hillary supporters. But what if Mccain won office, died in office, and she became President? Dear Lord! She has NO foreign policy experience, although I bet she has a strong opinion of Iraq. She was a mayor of a city of 9000 residents for a few years, and a governor for two years. Say what you want about Obama's inexperience, but at least he picked a very experienced VP who can give him advice and definitely step up if something happens to Obama. Palin's experience, even in comparison with Obama's, is laughable. Having her step up as president would be a nightmare.
Speaking of things that are laughable, the Daily Kos is reporting that Palin's latest baby might not have been hers at all, but might have in fact been her teenage daughter's. Evidence? Everyone was shocked to find out she was (supposedly) pregnant at 7 months and she took a plane flight supposedly the day before she gave birth- and no one on the flight noticed she was pregnant either. At the same time, her 16 year old daughter mysteriously missed several months of school due to "mono." And Palin supposedly returned to work 3 days after giving birth- to a premie downs syndrome baby no less! I guess that's what happens when you are pro-life and pro-abstinence, and you refuse to teach your daughter about birth control- and then refuse to let her have an abortion. But oh noes! You must claim the baby as your own, because clearly having a baby at 16 is super shameful as evidence of how stupid your policies are, and should be hidden!
Really? Do you think there's any basis to that rumor? I found it bizarre and unnatural that a woman would give birth to ANY baby and be back at work in three days, especially a special needs one. Who is raising her children?
ReplyDeletewell it's all speculation at this point, but I think it's fishy that she didn't at least take a maternity leave. I've never had a kid, but is it normal to be up and running around 3 days after giving birth? And i hear special needs kids take a longer time to bond with their parnets- both her and her husband should have been taking time off from work to bond with the kid, if it is indeed her kid.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I hear her kids are being raised by a nanny.
You reaction to McCain's choice is a very immature one. Trying to dig up a rumor about her baby not being hers? Speculating whether she has a nanny or not? Please.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, she herself is actually a better pres. candidate than Obama! He's just been a senator.....and she is the GOVERNOR of Alaska! She's had EXECUTIVE AUTHORITY.....and he Hasn't LOL!!!!!
I don't like either candidate. I'm middle of the road. But at least I'm open minded.
Damn it! - if only I was a Republican and governor of a small state - then I could run for VP! I'm as qualified as Ms. Hockey Mom is. If McCain wins the election, we all need to hope that he stays healthy!
ReplyDeleteTaking 3 days off after you have your 5th kid is not normal at all - but a 44 year old is more likely than is a teenager to have a baby with Downs Syndrome.
I'd really like to be VP, not President - the top spot is too much work. Do you think there's a 3rd party that would have me?
Sarah Palin is currently Governor of a State with a Population of 600,000. Before that, she was the mayor of a town with a population of 9,000 people. She is currently under investigation by the State of Alaska for Abuse of Power (the report is due on October 31st, she may be her own October Surprise).
ReplyDeleteThere are 22 current American Mayors who have more "executive experience" by that measure, as there are 22 cities with more people in them than the entire State of Alaska.
But let's look a little bit more at Sarah Palin. What did she think about the Vice Presidency when asked?
"We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here for the rest of the U.S., before I can even start addressing that question.”"
Personally, I'd like to vote for someone in the VP slot who thinks about the needs of the entire country, not the needs of Alaska. But then, that's not something you're likely to find from an Alaskan politician, given that the state has spent the last 50 years taking as much money as possible from the Federal Government (1.83 dollars in Federal Spending for Alaska for every dollar in Federal Taxes generated there, and the highest per-capita Federal spending in the country).
Still, we can hope someone would step away from that in a larger office. So what does she think of the Iraq war?
"I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq."
Well, it's good to know she is ready to be President, at least in John McCain's judgement.
Says quite a bit about his judgement, now that you think about it.
Yikes Katie, I don't think AE's reaction is at all immature. Snarky perhaps, but not immature. However yours, to AE's post, is.
ReplyDeleteDid you do ANY research at all before deciding she is better qualified than Obama? That idea is laughable.
Two things make me dislike the woman, on a personal level. One, as a mother, I cannot fathom going back to work three days after giving birth - especially to a special needs child!!
Two, as a woman, I can't understand how a woman can be anti-abortion rights. It may not be a choice I would make, but it needs to remain available and legal.
AE,
ReplyDelete"This move is so clearly pandering to disappointed Hillary supporters."
That's why it's brilliant. He's definitely going to score more disaffected Dem votes with this move. And her staunch conservative politics only serves to strengthen his base.
"...I bet she has a strong opinion of Iraq."
Actually she's stated that she doesn't.
"She was a mayor of a city of 9000 residents for a few years, and a governor for two years. Say what you want about Obama's inexperience..."
Another reason why it's a brilliant choice! Anything you say about her inexperience only highlights Obama's greatest weakness.
"Speaking of things that are laughable, the Daily Kos is reporting that Palin's latest baby might not have been hers at all, but might have in fact been her teenage daughter's."
You're joking right? That sounds about as true as Obama being a secret Muslim.
"But what if Mccain won office, died in office, and she became President?"
That's basically the only valid point here. I guess we're all hoping for McCain's continued health.
No. We're hoping that the only candidate who is qualified gets elected- Barack Obama.
ReplyDeleteCome on- what in the world does a McCain/Palin ticket have to offer?
I'm one of those disappointed Hillary supporters and I'm no fan of Obama's (or McCain's, for that matter). I'd pretty much decided not to vote this year.
ReplyDeleteIf it's at all true that one of the reasons for choosing Palin is to try to woo me (as that aforementioned disappointed Hillary supporter) then I'm pretty sure I should be insulted that the GOP thinks I'm that stupid. Because, of course, it doesn't matter to us disappointed Hillary supporters what kind of VP Palin would make, just that she's a woman. Because that's the only reason we voted for Hillary - because she's a woman. Idiots.
I guess I might be voting after all. Luckily I've liked Biden since way back when during the Clarence Thomas hearings.
Oh lordy lordy lord. AE, COME ON. Didn't I see this on an episode of Desperate Housewives? LOL.
ReplyDeleteIt's one thing to say she's inexperienced. She is (comparatively).
But to say the baby isn't hers? I can't believe anyone would scrape bottom like that, especially given the overwhelming "proof" like her daughter missing school and her going back to work so soon. Oh yeah, that's solid. LMAO.
I doubt that 95% of Hillary supporters will go for anyone but Obama. I don't think Republican strategists actually think that they are scooping up Hillary people. Who would be stupid enough to vote for someone simply because she is a woman, if you don't agree with what she stands for? That's like voting for someone because (s)he is Black or Jewish. You can celebrate and appreciate someone's candidacy without voting for them. I loved the fact that Lieberman got the nomination because he was a fellow Ortho Jew, but I voted for Bush because he was the best person for the job. You can applaud Palin's candidacy as a woman without endorsing or voting for her.
This does tell us something about John McCain.
ReplyDeleteIt tells us that he thinks that the Clinton supporters didn't back her because of her policies.
And it tells us that he thinks they didn't back her because of her experience.
No, John McCain clearly thinks that Hillary Clinton's supporters backed her purely because she has two X chromosomes.
Those rumors are nasty and distasteful.
ReplyDeleteBy picking her, McCain's essentially stuck his foot so far into his mouth, I don't know how he'll be able to make an acceptance speech at the GOP convention.
Does he really think that hilary supporters or any women sitting on the fence are going to vote for a pro-lifer who wants to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage?
Howard Dean was OK with Democrat pundits, even though he was only governor of Vermont which has fewer people than Alaska. Given how upset all the Democrat pundits seem to be and how Republican pundits seem to like the move, I reckon it was probably a good move on McCain's part.
ReplyDeleteMM,
ReplyDelete"No. We're hoping that the only candidate who is qualified gets elected- Barack Obama."
Are you serious? In what way do you think Obama is more qualified than McCain? You can disagree with his politics, but he clearly outshines Obama on his resume.
"Come on- what in the world does a McCain/Palin ticket have to offer?"
Hopefully a non-defeatist foreign policy, a better balanced budget and the experience to manage America. You wanna roll the dice on Obama? If so, I sure *hope* things will be ok.
Ortho- it is hardly fair to Ms. Eden to be having this scuffle in her house. Sorry Eden!
ReplyDeleteBut if you want to discuss, feel free to take it on over to my place.
"But what if Mccain won office, died in office, and she became President? Dear Lord! She has NO foreign policy experience, although I bet she has a strong opinion of Iraq. She was a mayor of a city of 9000 residents for a few years, and a governor for two years. Say what you want about Obama's inexperience, but at least he picked a very experienced VP who can give him advice and definitely step up if something happens to Obama."
ReplyDeleteYou've been spending too much time in the echo-chamber of a prissy sociology department. First, Palin has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined. Second, as to Biden's supposed foreign policy experience, he's the genius who came up with the idea of dividing Iraq into separate countries.
No, this isn't about experience (if it were, you'd certainly object more to Obama as president than Palin as VP). It also isn't about foreign policy knowledge (you weren't worried about Obama's ignorance on the topic before he picked Biden). The left's attacks on Palin are about as hypocritical as anything I've seen from that side of the aisle-- and that's saying quite a bit.
"as a woman, I can't understand how a woman can be anti-abortion rights. It may not be a choice I would make, but it needs to remain available and legal."
ReplyDeleteThat's been the problem with liberals lately; you really can't see anyone else's views as honest or reasonable, and tend to view disagreement with your received wisdom as a species of pathology.
The fact that, as a mother, you can't even fathom that another woman might be against killing unborn babies is somewhat disturbing. The abortion issue actually has two sides, and honest intelligent women are actually allowed to be on either side.
Sarah Palin by your argument has "more executive experience" than John McCain. Do you think she is more qualified than John McCain to be President because of it?
ReplyDeleteIf not, you arguments in favor of her are inherently dishonest.
Luckily Chanie we are all entitled to our own opinion.
ReplyDeleteI just think that critizising a politician's personal life is biased and not in any way productive.
Also, about John McCain's experience - he's been on the scene just way longer than Obama, who has been a Senator only a couple years.
ReplyDeleteJust sayin'. Like I said, I dislike both canditates, and I am unbiased.
Palin's also a fan of Pat Buchanan. She supported him in '96 and 2000 for President over Dole and Bush.
ReplyDeleteBut what if McCain won office, died in office, and she became President? Dear Lord! She has NO foreign policy experience
ReplyDeleteNot to worry. In that case she will appoint Biden as VP…
"Sarah Palin by your argument has "more executive experience" than John McCain. Do you think she is more qualified than John McCain to be President because of it?
ReplyDeleteIf not, you arguments in favor of her are inherently dishonest."
John McCain was also the leader of a fighter squadron and a graduate of the Naval Academy. I'm satisfied that he has demonstrated some leadership ability.
If you're going to suggest that Palin's experience is inadequate to be a VP while at the same time urging that Obama is in any way qualified to be president, then you should be a little more careful flinging around terms like "inherently dishonest."
David, you wrote: "That's been the problem with liberals lately; you really can't see anyone else's views as honest or reasonable, and tend to view disagreement with your received wisdom as a species of pathology."
ReplyDeleteOk, that literally made me LOL because I'm not a liberal (or god forbid a registered Democrat ;) I take more liberal views on certain issues, mainly abortion rights and gay marriage, but I happen to be very middle of the road or conservative on many other issues. I view rabid liberals in much the same way you obviously do, they tend to think that if someone does not think their way they are unenlightened or unintelligent.
"The fact that, as a mother, you can't even fathom that another woman might be against killing unborn babies is somewhat disturbing. The abortion issue actually has two sides, and honest intelligent women are actually allowed to be on either side."
Actually I wrote that as a WOMAN I couldn't understand her POV. As a mother, I can understand why one might be against abortion as their own personal choice. As a WOMAN I cannot understand wanting to impose her extremist view on other women.
I am suspicious of women, even "honest intelligent" ones, who cannot be sensitive to another woman dealing with an unwanted pregnancy - especially those dealing with a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.
Katie - yes, thankfully we are all entitled to our own opinions :o)
If you're going to suggest that Palin's experience is inadequate to be a VP while at the same time urging that Obama is in any way qualified to be president, then you should be a little more careful flinging around terms like "inherently dishonest."
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't follow.
First, Palin objectively has less experience than Obama. Some people may draw the line one way or another (after all, the last time the Republicans picked a 2 year Governor under investigation, we got Spiro Agnew), but I certainly don't find being the Governor of a small state to be *more* useful experience than being Senator.
Second, she has no record of engaging with or talking about foreign policy issues (or even most major domestic policy issues) outside of those that directly affect Alaska. Even on those (such as the War in Iraq) which affect all states, she has said she wasn't really paying that much attention.
For all of the rhetoric from the Republicans about the "lack of details", the Obama campaign has had meticulous position papers and details on the web site since the campaign began; more in many cases than the McCain campaign has.
Look, I have no doubt in my mind that Barack Obama is an extremely bright man (you don't end as president of the Harvard Law Review or teaching law at the University of Chicago without that) who has spent years thinking about, writing about, and talking about American foreign and domestic policy.
I have no doubt in my mind that John McCain has the experience to lead this country (although I may differ with him on many positions).
However, I see nothing in Sarah Palin to show me that she has the experience (unless nearly bankrupting the small town she was mayor of counts) to be President. Nor do I see any evidence that she has given serious thought to the issues of the day outside of those that directly affect her.
If you think that experience is the most important feature to be President (and I should note that the U.S. record on that indicates that it doesn't play the part you would think), then it is hypocritical for you to attack Obama and yet laud Palin.
If you think that nuanced or detailed positions on the issues of the day are the deciding point, again, I don't see how Sarah Palin is anything other than the weakest of the four people on the ticket.
And if you think that judgement is the hallmark of a President; well, there we may have to agree to disagree. I see nothing in Sarah Palin's track record as Mayor and Governor to indicate good judgement and much to call it into question. You may disagree.
And one last thought. If Sarah Palin were instead "Brian Palin", does anyone really think John McCain would have a Palin on the ticket? It looks to me like a blatant attempt to try to woo Clinton voters on the basis of gender; you may of course disagree.
The New York Times article today is really good. It explains that McCain really wanted Lieberman, but was pressured into not picking him, so finally he just went and interviewed Palin and hired her on the spot 'cuz his time was running out.
ReplyDeleteWhat has he been DOING these last four months?
I wouldn't take as fact anything written at the Daily Kos (should be Kooks), one of the nastiest, most hateful (not to mention virulently anti-Semitic and anti-Israel) blogs out there. I fully expect their next claim to be that Palin used to be a man.
ReplyDeleteWell, there's a grain of truth in every rumor...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html
I shouldn't laugh, but I can't help myself.
Dave:
ReplyDeleteToo many notes, Mozart, but I'll try to respond.
"First, Palin objectively has less experience than Obama."
Obama was a state legislator elected to the senate. He spent 2 of his 3 years in the senate running for president. He has, as I've mentioned, zero executive experience. If Palin has "objectively" less experience, then your objectivity is highly questionable.
"Second, she has no record of engaging with or talking about foreign policy issues..."
Obama has a record of talking about them. Then again, so do I. She negotiated a pipeline agreement with Canada, which actually gives her more direct foreign policy experience than Obama has (unless you count his rock-star speech-giving tour).
"For all of the rhetoric from the Republicans about the "lack of details", the Obama campaign has had meticulous position papers and details on the web site since the campaign began; more in many cases than the McCain campaign has."
Any dope can write a position paper. Having your aides write one does not give you experience. Moreover, following Obama's positions on major issues (capital gains taxes, foreign policy, health care), the word "dope" does come to mind.
"However, I see nothing in Sarah Palin to show me that she has the experience (unless nearly bankrupting the small town she was mayor of counts) to be President."
You say that you know Obama is bright, and you can't see anything to show that Palin has experience. You can't even keep your comparisons straight.
"Nor do I see any evidence that she has given serious thought to the issues of the day outside of those that directly affect her."
And you've heard her speak on how many occasions? And you've read her positions on how many issues? Hey-- when is the first time you heard of her at all? Bottom line: you're now conflating your (rather narrowly circumscribed) experience with her qualifications.
"If you think that experience is the most important feature to be President (and I should note that the U.S. record on that indicates that it doesn't play the part you would think), then it is hypocritical for you to attack Obama and yet laud Palin."
I can't even tell what you're arguing anymore. Why not get your act together, and come back with a serious argument about your candidate's qualifications (yeah, he's bright and has talked about issues-- what else ya got?), and a bit less about my hypocrisy.
"If you think that nuanced or detailed positions on the issues of the day are the deciding point, again, I don't see how Sarah Palin is anything other than [blah, blah]"
Nuance? Nuance? Are you some kind of hairdresser? I actually prefer clarity.
"And if you think that judgement is the hallmark of a President; well, there we may have to agree to disagree. I see nothing in Sarah Palin's track record as Mayor and Governor to indicate good judgement..."
And your familiarity with her track record comes from...?
Well, Chanie, "LOL" if you like, but when you talk like a liberal (or god forbid a registered Democrat), you may well be perceived as one.
ReplyDelete"As a mother, I can understand why one might be against abortion as their own personal choice. As a WOMAN I cannot understand wanting to impose her extremist view on other women."
My views on abortion don't happen to be exactly the same as Palin's. That said, I can easily understand the view that an unborn baby is a human, and should have certain basic rights, including the right not to be killed for someone else's convenience. The fact that you do not agree with that view does not bother me-- the fact that you cannot even understand it is somewhat more troublesome.
Uchh, David. Aside from any other points being made on this post, I just want to address this last attack on Chanie's words.
ReplyDeleteI think that almost any woman can understand why a mother would choose to keep her baby - whether it be religious beliefs, the lasting guilt and grief it might cause or simply that an embryo is considered a life from the moment of conception.
The problem arises when we tell women that need or want to have an abortion that they simply can't, because some law tells them so. Women should have the right to make their own choice, because it is their body, and they are the ones stuck with the consequences of what should be their decision.
I have no problem with a woman (or sometimes child - i have seen 12 year olds with babies) choosing to have her baby. I have a problem with my government saying they won't support her right not to have it. Because if that mom cannot support and love that child as it needs, we all bear the cost.
Thank you Slivky, I think you got the gist of what I was saying. I think a lot of people confuse being pro-choice for being pro-abortion. There is a big difference there.
ReplyDeleteDavid, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on what you have to say, since you are a man (or I assume so from your name.)
Slivsky,
ReplyDelete"The problem arises when we tell women that need or want to have an abortion that they simply can't, because some law tells them so. Women should have the right to make their own choice, because it is their body, and they are the ones stuck with the consequences of what should be their decision."
If you believe the fetus is a human being with the right to life just like anyone else then you should conclude that that person's life comes before someone else's (the mother's) inconvenience. It is a moral position and fully consistent with having the law coercively maintain the rights of the unborn.
Personally I think that abortion is terribly contrary to the interests of human life and human dignity and should be curtailed. I don't know precisely where the line should be drawn, but surely at the point where the abortionist needs to physically dismember the fetus in order to abort the pregnancy, mere personal choice seems like a tough sell to suffice. In general, I think past the late embryonic stage, a person needs a better reason than just 'not wanting' the child to be able to legally snuff out the life.
The game of politics is silly and boring.
ReplyDeleteWe should just take the condidates and put them in a room with Settlers of Katan. The winner becomes president and the loser has to clean up all the pieces of the game.
Palin objectively has less experience than Obama.
ReplyDeletePlus, Obama was actually VOTED IN. He was chosen despite his inexperience by the public. The same cannot be said of Palin.
John McCain just ran out of time trying to please everybody and threw up a Hail Mary. If he gets elected, let's hope he puts a little more thought into these decisions.
According to the latest news, while the baby is in fact Palin's, her 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant, keeping the baby and marrying the father, named "Levi." Saw the article on AOL.
ReplyDeleteCNN news flash
ReplyDeletePalin's teen daughter is pregnant
* Story Highlights
* Bristol Palin, 17, is pregnant and will keep baby, VP candidate says
* McCain knew of pregnancy before choosing Palin as running mate
* Information revealed in effort to correct rumors that Palin's baby is daughter's
* Next Article in Politics »
"The problem arises when we tell women that need or want to have an abortion that they simply can't, because some law tells them so. Women should have the right to make their own choice, because it is their body, and they are the ones stuck with the consequences of what should be their decision."
ReplyDeleteSlivky,
Without going into my own views, your argument is ridiculous.
We tell people that they can't put drugs in their bodies, and we tell people they can't take the clothes off their bodies and parade around the street. And, in those cases, there's no third party (i.e., unborn child or fetus or whatever) involved. So, tell me-- why are women so special that laws can't touch them? If the law can stop me from killing myself, then why can't it stop you from killing your baby?
Because of the "consequences?" If one accepts that an unborn child is an actual human life, then aren't the consequences to the woman of not having an abortion (i.e., pregancy followed by delivery followed, at a minimum, by giving the child up for adoption) far less significant than the consequences to the child of experiencing an abortion (i.e., being killed)?
Sorry, there are good arguments for (and against) abortion, but yours doesn't qualify.
to me, Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air and I'm actually flabbergasted that anyone would even consider voting for clowns like Obama (an America-hater to boot) and Biden. Liberals, especially Jewish ones, never cease to amaze me.
ReplyDeletethe fact that you characterize obama as an "american hater to boot" means I just lost all interest in anything else you have to say.
ReplyDelete"If the law can stop me from killing myself, then why can't it stop you from killing your baby?"
ReplyDeleteThat's exactely the problem with anti-abortion laws: Law cannot stop a suicidal person from committing suicide, even if suicide is forbidden.
In the same way, anti-abortion laws will not really stop women who want to abort from aborting. They'll just force them into a different country to do it, or to perform it illegally.
I the times where abortion was illegal (and where there was still no contraception), "angel-Makers" had a striving business (not only "killing" the fetus, but in many instances also the mother).
Dave - that is your opinion, based on.....nothing. (About McCain choosing a female VP candidate becuse she is female).
ReplyDeleteIf Obama had chosen a female VP, would you say the same?
"That's exactely (sic) the problem with anti-abortion laws: Law cannot stop a suicidal person from committing suicide, even if suicide is forbidden."
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Interesting argument. I guess it's also the problem with the laws against murder, theft, rape, arson, etc. Maybe we should just do away with those laws, too? Actually, there's a big difference between laws against suicide and laws against abortion-- you can't punish someone for committing suicide.
"I (sic) the times where (sic) abortion was illegal (and where there was still no contraception), "angel-Makers" had a striving (sic) business (not only "killing" the fetus, but in many instances also the mother)."
"Angel-makers." What a quaint term for someone who kills babies!
I am a woman and a mother and cannot understand how any woman could be pro killing innocent babies.
ReplyDeleteThe reason many men want abortions legal is because they want to have irresponsible sex and then blame women for opting to not abort. "Why should I pay for child support if she chose to have that baby."
Unlike people on this blog, I did watch her story on TV. She is a governor of a state with 5 children. When elected, her husband decided to support her and is now a full time parent.
As far as Obama is concerned I panick when I just imagine him as a president. His anti-Israel stance, he followed an open racist preacher for 20 years and donated money to his church. (Oprah went to the same church a few times, and that's all that took for her to realize what it was all about).... His wife openly said that she didn't believe in America... He wants to steal money from working people and give them to bums under the banner "Taxing the rich"... There is more