Women are not invited to the asifa. Women are not invited to the overflow stadium. The party line is that they couldn't set up a mechitza (separating wall) in the stadium, and men and women can't be seated without a separation. That excuse rings a little hollow when the organizers rent an additional 20,000 seat stadium, not so that women can actually attend, but so that more men can attend. If they have the money to rent another stadium, why not one for women instead of 20,000 more yeshiva bochers? Is it because, perhaps, that the community assumes men are in charge of their households so who cares what women think anyway? Is it perhaps that this community gives knowledge to men and restricts knowledge from women (like the way men learn the Talmud - the basis of Jewish law - and women are not taught it), much in the same way that up until recently the Bible was written in Latin so that the priests could dictate knowledge to their parish without being questioned? Or the way that slaves weren't taught to read so they couldn't read about abolitionist ideas and that man has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Speaking of suppression of information, this rally is supposedly about the dangers of the internet. The main dangers of the internet are supposedly porn, which supposedly ruins Jewish families.
Let me tell you a story of a Jewish family I know that was ruined by porn. There was a frum family I knew that was good friends with my family, and I spent many shabbas meals at their house growing up. They had 4 kids, and from every outward appearance they had a happy family. Shortly after I moved out of my parents house, I was shocked to hear that they were getting divorced. But when I heard the story of why they got divorced, I was a little confused.
Apparently the reason was porn. A few years earlier, the wife of the couple had walked in on her husband watching porn. Now, as far as I know, this was your garden-variety, heterosexual couple having fairly vanilla sex porn. There were no farm animals or children or a revelation that he likes guys or people being whipped or electrocuted or anything.
So, the woman walks in on her husband watching garden variety heterosexual porn and FLIPS OUT and basically treats it like he was cheating on her with another woman. They go to therapy about it for years. But what is the final line that causes them to get divorced? The woman catches her youngest son watching porn. And then blamed the husband! Because clearly there is no way that a teenaged boy would ever watch porn, unless it was her husband teaching him about it. What?
So did porn cause this divorce? I don't think so. I think what caused this divorce is that this woman was completely insane and equated porn with an affair. And then she decided to end a marriage that had lasted over 20 years and produced 4 kids because she couldn't stand the fact that her husband had looked at some tits on a screen and thought of this as him cheating. Instead looking at porn is something that every normal guy looks at, and is not a big deal! In fact, most women probably look at porn too. I certainly have. My husband looks at porn. Heck, we've even watched porn together. Does this bother me? No! Why would it? Looking at porn doesn't take away from our sex life, it's not a real person that he's ever going to meet. It doesn't make him less attracted to me. I even asked him if it would be ok to write on my blog that he watches porn and he was like "sure, that's ok. Tell them I watch lots of porn." Ha! If anything I'm more curious about what kind of porn he watches, and once when we were living together but not married yet, I went through some of the porn saved on his computer just out of curiosity to see what he was into (and later told him/apologized cause I felt like I was invading his privacy, which it was). It was fairly boring, I was even a little disappointed there wasn't something more juicy in there.
But is this internet asifa actually about porn? An interesting article in the Jewish Forward about a hassidic internet cafe tells a slightly different story. Apparently these cafes are popping up everywhere because internet has now been banned in their homes, but some people still need the internet for work/other things every once in a while. So they have some internet cafes that have been popping up, with filtered internet connections that are "kosher." What is censored at this cafe at the urging of Lakewood Rabbis? Porn of course. But also Yahoo news, because of celebrities. And those evil social networking sites like facebook (where, god forbid, you might actually have an easy way to keep in contact with your friends and share information). And what else do they mention is now completely censored due to pressure from Rabbis? Blogs. Meaning if you are sitting in the cafe mentioned in this article and surfing the internet, you are not reading this blog.
They even mention a specific blog that is blocked, Failed Messiah, which is a great blog for finding out information about what Rabbis are doing wrong this week. One fascinating article there points out that the man who came up with the idea of this internet asifa has been accused of beating children in his care and encouraging other teachers to beat students when he ran a yeshiva.
This seems about a bit more than porn. This seems like censorship of information. Mostly it seems like the Rabbis don't want anyone to know that abuse happens in the frum community, that they are not perfect, and that the leadership is not infallible. I don't even think that it's the OTD information and arguments against god and the torah that the Rabbis who are pro-censoring the internet are worrying about. I think it's about questioning their authority and finding out that that the emperors - them - have no clothes. In some cases quite literally.
And they are right to be worried. Some people in the frum community say that people go off the derech for emotional reasons, not logical reasons. I think that's true to the extent that some people will not even consider the possibility of their Rabbis not being infallible until they have emotionally lost their "faith" in their Rabbis after seeing evidence of their fallibility. And when you lose faith in the leadership, the rest unravels pretty quickly.
Looking back, that certainly was the way it was for me. I went off the derech before there was even much of an internet. When I told my story here about how I went off the derech I focused mostly on things that happened after I turned 15, and the process of extracting myself from the Jewish community. But I did have two very formative experience that I didn't mention then that set me up to be skeptical of rabbis.
Something I'm realizing about myself as I write this - I've always, since a young age (since the first story I'm about to tell) made a distinction between "school rabbis" and "shul rabbis." School rabbis, the teachers at my school who taught Jewish-specific classes, I felt were not to be trusted. I was highly skeptical of them. I questioned them and didn't like their answers. But up until the second story, I felt that Shul rabbis, the rabbis who led weekend services and Jewish youth groups, could be trusted, and had my best interests in mind, and had no reason to lie to me. Perhaps as a result of this distinction, I stopped following some Jewish rules secretly between the two stories- mostly the rules I felt were more chumras/minhag (Customs) than halacha (law) - like I would use electricity on shabbas (cause that's not actually lighting a fire, especially if my computer was on the whole time) but I wouldn't "work," I would play video games. I would eat dairy and fish, and food without hechshers (kosher certification) but with kosher ingredients, but wouldn't eat non-kosher meat or meat and milk together. And I was still a part of the orthodox Jewish community after the first story (although secretly somewhat OTD), but after the second I left the community and the rules entirely.
It wasn't until I went through both stories and lost faith in both school and shul rabbis, that I started really searching for reasons to explain how so many people could believe in the torah if it was actually not true. Which led me to a lot of philosophy and biblical criticism, which led to a compete loss of faith in god and my beliefs developing into that of an atheist. But I didn't believe Judaism and the Torah were true before I looked at any logical arguments for it- and that was because I had lost my faith in the leaders of the Jewish community, in both shul rabbis and school rabbis. Once you lose faith in the leadership, you lose it all the way back. If a Rabbi today is a liar or an idiot, that means Ezra, the person who read the torah after the Jews returned to Israel from Babylon (when they seemingly didn't know it already because they newly understood the words) could have just made the whole thing up. Or the cohen gadol (high priest) who "Found" the book of law could have made the whole thing up. (Hat tip to Fence Sitter for that second link.) Or maybe even Moshe Rabeinu (Moses) made the whole thing up if he ever existed, no one was up there with him on that mountain or when he talked to that "burning bush" or whatever. Maybe even he thought it was true, but he was just crazy and heard voices.
So here are the two stories: The first took place when I was in first grade. I only have a very vague direct memory of this part of the story, but at one point my teacher, whose name was Morah Pearl (I don't know her last name- Morah means "teacher") hit me in class. I don't remember where she hit me or how hard, I just remember where I was sitting in the class. I told my parents, and they came into the school. What happened next I remember very clearly - I remember sitting in an office with the principal (Rabbi Goldstein of Yeshiva of North Jersey, now the Dean of that school apparently, hey there rabbi, I hope you're reading this!) and being forced to write a letter apologizing to the teacher about "lying" about her hitting me. I remember crying and insisting I wasn't lying and being very angry and not understanding why they were forcing me to lie, when I knew I was right and she had hit me and I wasn't lying. I remember writing the letter anyway, and the Rabbi spelling out words he was telling me to write, because I couldn't write very well at the time and couldn't spell words like "apologize" because I was in fucking first grade. And I remember after that, in Morah Pearl's class, instead of struggling to read Hebrew and daven (pray) like I had been until that point, I started my first secret "OTD" act - I would only move my lips and pretend to daven (which I did on and off for years). And I never trusted a school rabbi again.
This happened in first grade (1989ish or thereabouts) and I was very young at the time and was wondering what else was going on there, so a few months ago when me and my dad were emailing back and forth talking about something else I asked him
Speaking of weird old memories, I've recently been thinking about that thing that happened in like first or second grade with morah pearl hitting me in class and then all the drama afterwards....some day we're going to have to talk more about that and you'll have to explain what happened from your perspective, cause I only remember parts of it, but I do remember you having some file folder with notes about it. :)His response speaks for itself
Wow! Morah Pearl... Yes, I kept a file on all of you. I labelled them "grief files."
If I recall correctly, they called Mom and me into school, YNJ, thinking that we would gang up on you and make you recant your accusation. They made you out to seem like a pathological liar. Now, being older and wiser, I know that they were required to report any potential abuse to the state authorities. They were trying to quash this. Instead, Mom and I took your side and believed you. (You even wrote a note to the teacher asking her innocently why she would lie about the whole episode when she knew it to be true.) They then took you aside into a private room while distracting us and put more pressure on you to recant. But you stuck to your guns. We were furious that they would add insult to injury by doing this to you and let them have it.
Ultimately, it was incidents like that, and [other incident with my brother], that led us to pull all three of you out of YNJ and put you in SAR, which was more progressive and forward thinking.
As bad as you think you had it, I probably had it worse. I was hit pretty often by my rebbies, way until 9th grade when I was taller than them. It's amazing that I didn't convert and become a Muslim or Catholic in spite. Instead, I became a Rabbi in 2005. Now, I don't have to be that impressed by other rabbis since I have that title too.
It's amazing that any of us turned out sane.
I think what I remember is when I was "taken into a private room" according to my dad, which is when I was forced to write that letter. And maybe in the end I didn't write it after all as my dad remembers me sticking to my guns? I remember writing it though so maybe I only stuck to my guns verbally...
The second story, which explains how I lost my faith in Shul rabbis, took place many years later when I had just finished up my senior year of high school. I was very involved in NCSY (a jewish youth group) as a teenager and went to events at least once a month, and that was when Rabbi Baruch Lanner was an NCSY rabbi high up in the NCSY hierarchy. I went to school with his daughters, he taught at my school at one point while I was there (although I didn't take his class), I had talked to him a number of times at NCSY events, and I knew Rabbi Lanner. Not as well as a boy I was dating at the time did though, since that boy was one of the boys whom Rabbi Lanner had kicked in the balls. For those not familiar with the story here is the original story that blew the whole thing open in which he is accused of both sexually molesting young teenage girls and physically abusing young boys by kicking them in the balls. This went on for several decades, and several other rabbis were told, including a beit din, and yet he continued to work with children, and no one ever reported him to the police, until that story was published by a Jewish newspaper. Rabbi Lanner was eventually convicted and went to jail for 7 years and is now out on parole living in Florida last I heard.
But before he was convicted, and after his wife divorced him (and after the story above came out) Rabbi Lanner lived at the house of my parent's rabbi (and at the time my rabbi) for several months. My rabbi, who had a teenage daughter my age and in my class at school who also lived in that house, invited into his home a child molester accused of molesting teenage girls. When the accusations came out, my former rabbi got up on the pulpit and told the congregation that we should give him the benefit of the doubt, and we should always stand behind our fellow jews, even if the evil media falsely accuses him. And me, sitting in the audience, knowing the boy I was dating had been personally kicked in the balls by that piece of shit Lanner? That's when I lost my faith in Shul Rabbis. Because I know my Rabbi fully believed he was doing the right thing by defending a fellow jew and helping him in his time of need, which showed how poor his judgement was. And how could I follow someone with such poor judgement?
The problem is not the internet. The internet didn't cause abuse. People did that. The problem is the abuse, and ESPECIALLY the leadership trying to cover up the abuse. The problem is what they are doing - trying to hide information. The coverup is often as bad as or worse than the crime, and if I was trying to tell these rabbis how they could prevent people from going OTD I would say - be actual leaders. Stop covering up horrible abuses, even if it's scary to admit your community isn't perfect. The abuse is the problem, not the victims coming forward about it. Weed it out.
In my first story, the coverup was worst than the crime. I don't even remember the hit, and I was only 6 or 7 years old when this all went down, but 24 years later I clearly remember being forced to write that letter, I remember writing the words, I remember where the principal was in the room, and I remember my first taste of injustice. Later it was not Rabbi Lanner who made me lose my faith entirely, but it was my own Rabbi inviting him into his home and telling everyone not to believe in his crimes, which I knew were true, that led to a loss of faith.
This covering up shit is destroying faith in Rabbis, which is destroying the Jewish religion. The internet is not the problem, the coverup is the problem, and blaming it on the internet is the worst thing you can do- because to all the kids like I was a kid 12 and 24 years ago, who knew the truth of what really happened, all we see is information being covered up. And if religion can stand on it's own two feet, as religious people claim it can, why try to cover up every other option? Why censor a blog that exposes the wrong doing of Rabbis, and which can help victims network with each other and gain information about other victims coming forward about their abusers? That actually happened in the case I'm going to discuss in a few paragraphs - an alleged victim saw this guy on the internet and then went and checked him out in public and told people there that this was the same person who had molested him as a child.
If you have to hide blogs reporting on what you are doing by censoring the internet, that's because what you are doing is wrong and you don't want them to find out about it. And the more people wake up to that, the more people see religion for what it really is - a bunch of charlatans doing a giant magic trick and hiding information from the public that isn't convenient to the big fake show they are putting on. And why the fuck should I care what some charlatan dictator says?
Thankfully, some within and without the frum community have started to realize this. Last week a large group of thousands of chassidim rallied to support and raise money for an accused child molester (typical of the ultra orthodox community). This particular man stands accused of molesting a 12 year old girl who was sent to him for therapy after questioning religion. Basically she was sent there for some good ole brainwashing (he's not even a licensed therapist) after starting to go OTD, and she allegedly got sexually molested for several years while her parents paid for the privilege. Or at least that's what he stands accused of - the trial is happening soon I believe.
This case hit particularly close to home, because when I was 17 or 18 my parents took me to a frum family therapist to discuss all my "acting out," which is where I first told them I wasn't religious anymore. And that guy was a creep and kept looking at my legs and saying creepy things like "Well you are a beautiful young lady" when we were alone. I even stared long and hard at a picture of this guy to try to see if it was the same guy (and honestly it could be, I can't really remember what he looked like, since we only went to see him once or twice like 13 years ago).
Anyway, for the first time in my memory, instead of the community gathering solely to support the "Falsely accused child molester," there was a counter protest of about 100 frum and OTD people there to support the victim, the way any rational human being should!
At tomorrow's anti-internet asifa, 385 people have already signed up for a counter-rally called The Internet is NOT the problem to bring awareness to child abuse in the Jewish community. They will meet at the corner of 126th and Roosevelt Ave from 5-8pm to peacefully bring awareness of the institutionalized cover up of child abuse in the Jewish community.
I really really wish I could be there, and part of me really wants to take off on a crazy last minute 12 hour road trip so I could be. But since I can't, I hope some of you will go in my place.
Fantastic post, AE.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if those Internet cafes block Frum Satire, too?
Thank you for an excellent post AE.
ReplyDeleteVictor
Wow. What a crazy story. I'm glad you didn't refrain from using his name.
ReplyDeleteDavid L- The article said they block ALL blogs and then specifically mentioned failed messiah. Since frum satire is a blog I'm going to assume yes.
ReplyDeleteHere I am sitting I'm my house on shabbos after noon supposed to be in shul for shalash sidos my wife in kids went to boby (grandmother) and I'm reading this beautiful story on my phone and see my self in the same position like u but not as lucky I'm still here and hiding of my truth, hope I'll have the courage and stop living this fucking fake life.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your story with us
hey jo how r u im in the same situation where r u from im from bp hit me up jewishfun2@gmail.com
Deletejo bee how will u make it threw the next 3 days without phone
Deleteshabbus and then shvuas
hit me up jewishfun2@gmail.com
While most of the stories we hear of shocking abuse and cover-up are in the hareidi/hassidic communities, it is really sad to hear similar stories in modern Orthodox communities. I think it has gotten better - for example, the swift reaction to the situation in Yeshivat Noam recently. But, it's particularly important for rabbis (especially in MO communities, where people are more aware of alternatives to a religious life) to realize what an impact a less-than-completely-honest approach to the concerns of their students have.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to share the story with Rabbi Goldstein, his email address is rsgoldstein@rynj.org.
In before Jewish Philosopher says something stupid about porn.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing that we read the Talmud and yet, we learn nothing from it. Your story about the rabbi hosting Baruch Lanner (that piece of human filth does not deserve an honorific) is so much like to old Kamtza/Bar Kamtza story that brought down the Second Temple. As this week's parsha said, if we do not keep the Torah (and I doubt this community does, in spite of the pretense), we will eat the flesh of our children. By sacrificing them on the altar of our image, that is exactly what we are doing.
ReplyDeleteFunny how I "forget" things that never happened. The way I remember my life actually happening is that I stopped keeping kosher and shabbas at age 15, I first had sex about a month before my 18th birthday with a guy I fully expected to marry and later was engaged to, and I first had sex with a second person when I was 22. So you're saying I went OTD 7 years in advance of having "Sex with a bunch of different guys" in order to have sex with a bunch of guys? I must be a prophet of some kind. Or just really bad at getting laid? Seems like a lot of effort to get laid by a bunch of guys when I could have easily done that while (mostly) frum...as many of my friends did.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, keep it up, someone suggested I delete your comments but I think you do more to make more people go "Off the derech" than my posts do, so please, continue. :)
JP: You left out the part where you're a creepy online stalker.
ReplyDeleteAs for Yeshiva faculty members not shooting people, see here.
JP: You also forgot the part where you aren't actually Jewish.
DeleteBret, I don't think that's fair. Denying the Judaism of converts and ostracizing them is a serious problem of Orthodox Judaism. Ask AE about it. Much as I would like to just reject JP from my "tribe", I don't think that mocking any convert's Jewish status is right. He's a really sick puppy, and while I don't care about his feelings, I do care about other converts.
DeleteI don't much care if you think that's "fair." I don't think much about Judaism is fair, I just report on what I interpret to be the truth of that religion's teachings. If you don't like it, take it up with YHWH.
DeleteMy wife pointed out Abraham converted people and that this is evidence for the acceptance of conversion in Judaism. I'm curious: does this mean Judaism supports polygamy as well?
DeleteBret, you are correct. Although, there was an edict against polygamy for Ashkenazic Jews made by Rabeinu Gershom against polygamy. However since the Sefardic Jews were not subject to this decree you might be able to (still) find a Sephardic Jew with more than one wife.
DeleteBen sora-
ReplyDeleteWhy would I want to share this story with Rabbi Goldstein? He was there, wasn't he? He knows what happened...(although since this did happen like 24 years ago there's probably a very good possibility he's forgotten by this point, depending on how many students he pressures to recant stories about teacher abuse).
Or do you mean, like, the consequences of that story? :)
Thank you for sharing, AE.
ReplyDeletewhy are you cataloging my sexual escapades? I'm not going to have sex with you, even though I do go for the non-jewish guys. I'm monogamously married, you missed your chance. Does your wife know what you are posting on the internet? If my husband was obsessively trolling some young woman's blog and cataloging every time she had sex, I would think something weird was up. Do you really hate me, or do you really want to fuck me and you hate yourself for it?
ReplyDeleteWhich is it, did sex cause me to become an atheist or did I go OTD to have sex? Your whole chronology (which conveniently leaves out a whole bunch of things) reflects the first, not the second story, while your words claim the second.
What outrageous behavior by atheists doesn't bother me? Injustice always bothers me, no matter who is responsible.
It should also be pointed out that the Rabbi in question in this story is NOT an Ultra Orthodox Rabbi. The Rabbi who protected Lanner is Modern Orthodox. Although he has some cred in the UO community (I've met Lakevood, Moonsey, Booroy Park, and Villy types who respect him), his kehilah is very much Modern Orthodox. So it's not just the Ultra Orthodox community that is guilty of this crime.
ReplyDeleteTo the OU's credit, at least they DID act when Lanner was exposed. It might not have been the best course of action, but at least they did act. Unlike Kolko, who is still being protected, Lanner was fired from the OU. Though as any reader of Failed Messiah can tell you, Lanner is still alive and well in a certain respect...
They act when he was exposed, but hadn't rumors been circulating for decades, at one point a beit din was called, and nothing was done before he was publicly exposed? What credit do you want me to give for that- that they stopped covering it up when they were forced not to anymore? :) I suppose that is better than the UO...oh what a world we live in when we distinguish between degrees to which the communities we grew up in protect child molesters and abusers.
Deletewasnt just rumors. direct accusations, with the rabbi (who was the head of the ou) running interference.
Deletelanner was not really fired...he was pushed out...he went across the country to los angeles and attempted to get a job as the shul rabbi at beth jacob. the largest shul in los angeles. the board loved him, they were going to hire him...until a few of my freinds, who had prior run ins with the freak..talked to the board members
the ou is not blameless...which is why there was a total shakeup
they didnt know about the sexual abuse, but they did know about the physical and emotional abuse, and the repeated inappropriate behavior
and trust me, lanner wasnt the only one...
I've just never had a man so interested in my sexual exploits unless they wanted to get into my pants- it's literally now been years that you've been commenting about sex, telling me I like the cock, etc.
ReplyDeleteAnd why wouldn't a fattie like yourself be attracted to a curvacious beautiful woman like myself? I know you go for the fatass type, we've all seen pictures of your wife, so don't try to deny it. And I noticed you haven't been trolling Tova's blog as much now that she lost a lot of weight. Unless it's really the boys you are attracted to, I've heard you've been trolling to gay OTD blogs lately too, is there something you want to tell us?
Thanks JP, you just added a nice bit of loshon horoh and outright pritzus to the complaint my friends in Wesley have volunteered to distribute to local Rebbeim regarding your internet activities. Much obliged :-)
ReplyDelete"Why would I want to share this story with Rabbi Goldstein?"
ReplyDeleteI assumed you wanted to, since in your post you said, "hey there rabbi, I hope you're reading this!"
I would want him to know that, if he thinks it's important for his students to stay religious, the most important thing he and the teachers in his school can do it to model a Judaism that his students will want to be a part of. Prioritizing his own convenience or reputation over the safety of his students sounds like a pretty bad way to do that. I think his school has something like 1000 students... hopefully he's giving a better message to them than he did to you.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHonestly, I just don't ever want to directly have to engage with that man again, even the thought of sending him an anonymous email from my abandoning eden account is making my stomach hurt from anxiety :(
DeleteClearly prioritizing his reputation must have worked out for him....as his school, as you say, now has over 1000 students (I think it had around 500 when I went there- which was from preschool until the end of 6th grade) and is still around 24 years later. :)
thank you for the great post
ReplyDeletewhile i was by the asifa im still in the costume but wish i can be out of it already
i just remember as a young child im school one day the prociple called me out that i should walk over th the other building and go to the principle there he started talking to me about touching places where u shouldnt and asked me if any of my neighbors touched me so i answerd no what was really true
but he didnt give up and told me he will punish me if i wont say but i said no its not true no one touched me till he really got me scared so i remember just answering yes he asked did he touch i said yes and so on till he MADE a picture of a story which i still cant get to my self y i put another kid into trouble if it really wasnt true
anyway thanks for ur wonderfull story i wish i can join u and not have to sit in thie costume anymore
jewishfun2@gmail.com
AE, this is an excellent post and right on target. Anything that can't stand up to scrutiny isn't worth defending. If someone wants to engage in Orthodox Judaism despite knowing the massive social flaws in Orthodoxy today, and wants to remain religious despite despite knowing the doubts raised by scholarship, that's great. But an ignorant Judaism is not really worth it. If the truth alienates some like yourself from Judaism, that's fine too. Truth should be the ultimate value, not protecting myths at all costs and ignoring social needs.
ReplyDeleteOh, and please ban JP from posting here. I know you said he's helping people see what Judaism really is, but he's a red herring. He's not Judaism, not even Charedi Judaism. I know many Charedim, and while I think so much about their lifestyle is wrong, I can't imagine any of them behaving anything like JP does. He's a very mentally ill individual who really needs psychiatric help. And his comments here just trash perfectly good comment threads that could be about substantial issues instead of his sexual deviance.
ReplyDeleteIf you've figured out how to ban people on blogspot, please let me know :)
ReplyDeletehave I silenced your batshit dissent? Why not yell at me for something I've actually done instead of psychotically making shit up and then yelling at me about it?
ReplyDeleteOh right because you have a sexual addiction problem and the only way to control it is to work out your sexual kinks/frustrations is by yelling at women on the internet about how they love the cock, as if it's actually perverted to enjoy sex, a completely normal thing that normal non psychotic humans enjoy. Clearly you have some sort of weird sexual urges you feel compelled to tamp down on by taking an extremist view. I hope you can one day be at peace with your own desires. It's ok to like sex, really! Even porn!
http://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=29268
ReplyDeleteeveryone here should read the above...including the troll
I read that, people in Passaic seems to hire some very good and reasonable rabbis, the one rabbi I always had a lot of respect for and felt I could go talk to as a teenager and who I actually LIKED as a person was Rabbi Wasserman formerly the Rabbi of Passaic Young Israel.
DeleteHe was my teacher in High School. He's a great Rabbi and definitely cutting edge!
Deletei wish someone would tell me why orthodox jews are SO obssessed with everyone's sexual activities. this asifa was about sexual things on the internet. porn. social contact between the sexes. and the weird thing is THEY DONT EXPLICITLY SAY IT. they should be honest. stop masterbating. dont hook up. i wish they would tell us why those things are at the forefront of their thoughts.
ReplyDeleteHere's a hint: Rising age at marriage and a complete prohibition against touching/in some cases contact with the opposite sex before marriage makes for an obsession with sex. Sex is a normal part of healthy human expression, we all (well most) have the urge to have sex and be in relationships touch other people, and by repressing it SO much to an unnatural extent, I think they ironically make it much more the focus of their thoughts.
DeleteOMG JP did you just actually agree with something I said??? We should make a shechiyanu!
DeleteAnyone else find it ironic that in a post that references the Asifa against the internet, a troll who pretends to be ultra-Orthodox is talking about sex?
ReplyDeleteIt's not about religion for him. He's getting his jollies. That's why he continues to do this when not one other living rabbi agrees with what he's doing.
Bret may think that Narcissistic Personality Disorder doesn't exist, but we seem to have a prime example of it here.
Unlike you, I've posted the names of my rabbis on numerous occasions.
DeleteSo I don't misquote, you can listen to the words yourself: http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/690286/jewish/To-Love-Every-Jew.htm
I don't view atheism as a separate belief, but rather as a lack of belief. In some situations, there is also alienation from belief, which AE describes in this post. This alienation is like a spiritual blockage, which prevents someone from connecting spiritually.
So, I'm pretty vocal, both online and in real life, in fighting against things that alienate, or "block" people from Judaism. Abuse, in any form, is a prime example. So is anything else that creates a negative emotional association (family discord, educational problems, discrimination, etc.)
I don't hate anyone.
DeleteDisagreeing with the content of someone's posts is not hatred.
I do believe that you are not totally honest. You present yourself as an Orthodox Jew, who is not a Modern Orthodox Jew. True, you are not the only person on the internet to make lewd, sexual posts, but you are the only one to claim that you are doing it for the sake of Judaism. That makes you no different than someone peddling pork as kosher, and you know it. You live in a town literally filled with rabbis, and yet you have failed to identify ONE SINGLE LIVING RABBI who approves of the way that you talk about "cock" to women on the internet.
So, which is it? Do you acknowledge that you are doing something that you know full well is forbidden because you get your thrills this way? Or do you really believe that you are somehow better than every single other living Orthodox rabbi out there who has failed to support you? If your "methods" were so wonderful, why don't you publicize them to other rabbis who aren't on the internet? Why weren't you speaking at the Asifa about the tremendous work that you do harassing those who are OTD, and encouraging others to do the same? Why don't you tell us all what Rabbi Senter said to you?
Attempting to avoid the questions does nothing but reinforce my claim that you are not honest.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest of your post, I suggest a course in reading comprehension and a copy of the Chofetz Chaim's works.
thats not exactly what it says. additionally, the majority of those who are not observant have the din of tinok shenishba.
Deleteto do what you are doing, you must first ask a rav...which you havent.
Still waiting for an answer to the questions.....
ReplyDeleteAnother straw man argument.
ReplyDeleteI didn't ask who reads over your entire blog. I asked, repeatedly, for the name of one other living Orthodox rabbi who approves of your posts with the word "cock" to female bloggers. That's it. You constantly change the subject because you are unable to answer this basic question.
I also asked you what exactly Rabbi Senter said to you on this subject, since you had previously identified him as one of your rabbis.
So, the answer is apparently that you cannot find any living rabbi who agrees with your methods.
ReplyDeleteThat's just a wikipedia entry which says nothing about your particular methods.
ReplyDeleteAs for the bogus attempt to suggest racism, I can assure everyone that if I ever lost a job due to violation of company internet policy, I would not write:
"Watson, apparently a Louis Farrakhan/Jesse Jackson style black Jew hater, probably took one look at my photo on my blog with a beard and yarmulke he ordered my firing."